Nikki: 0:01

Okay, welcome to Automation Ladies. This is a special episode where I'm actually recording on my phone and I am at the Houston office of ePlan and Rittal meeting with Sarah Larson, who I've been wanting to have on the show for a while. I think she's initially signed the guest release several months ago. She's had an outstanding invite. A lot of the times, though, it's like when, you know, when the time is right, things come together. That they do. So this was a last minute thing where I was just like, you know what, I'm gonna come jump down let's meet and let's talk. So, we're doing, you know, a short little episode different format than normal. But, I wanted to talk A, hear Sarah's story. I've been kind of wanting to, to get the full details of it for a while. She has an extensive history in our industry. And... And then we are probably gonna touch on a little bit we're gonna be getting back together in Boston in a few weeks for our automation fair. Sarah, thank you so much for sitting down with me at such a last minute and being willing to record something.

Sarah: 0:58

No, well, thank you for having me. It's that it worked out great here in Houston this week, as you said, at the office between Rittal and ePlan. We're doing marketing workshops this week, looking ahead to our event coming up, Automation Fair in November, and what we want to do for 2024. It's that time of year for event planning. You were asking earlier about my title and where I am in this industry. Currently, I'm the digital business manager here at ePLAN USA. And that is taking the evolution of a marketing manager. And what are we doing digitally to attract, retain, and convert customers, right? Prospects to customers. What's that digital experience? That customer journey. And at the end of the day, turn that into lead generation activities. So that's where it's a beautiful title. And we would also call it a marketing manager. Yeah. Yes.

Nikki: 1:48

But I mean, our whole industry is kind of struggling with this digitalization on all fronts.

Sarah: 1:53

Right. And marketing's included. And sales, too. And sales. Yeah. And, and, and what's that customer journey? You know, you can research online, but then I talk to a human. Yep. And then I electronically sign a quote, and electronically sign an invoice, but then I talk to a human. And then maybe I download something and I talk to a human. So how do those experiences... work and weave together, so they're not quite so disjointed. So that is part of us here in digital and the customer journey. How I started, it's a very interesting story. I went to school in a small town outside of Minneapolis, St. Paul, Minnesota. And at that time and I'm trying not to date myself. As part of our high school curriculum, remember going to shop class and you got to, like, work with your hands and make that wooden, whether it be jewelry box, or you maybe got to change a tire in a car, right? You had that auto mechanic shop class. My school built a house and then they would donate it to a family in town.

Nikki: 2:53

Wow. Like a Habitat for Humanity type thing.

Sarah: 2:55

While you would sign up to be part of that class. So they had an electrical track and like carpentry, like the trades track. Well, I wanted to be part of it. My mom actually went to the school board to fight on my behalf, to get me into that class. Wow. I was the first girl in my school to go to that class. And I got to help do the wiring and the building of the house. So pretty exciting. And I had one of my teachers, you know, we always have like that one that really sticks out in your head. And I'm going to give him a shout out, Mr. Ziller. Our science teacher in high school says, you should be in engineering. You love to be efficient. You love processes. You love how things work. You would do well in engineering. And I went, okay, I'm in high school. Sure. Sounds great. How about electrical? You enjoyed working on the house. Okay. I understand electrical engineering is not the same as electrician, but I could see where they were trying to bring all the opportunities to me help me find a school. And I ended up going to the Milwaukee School of Engineering for electrical engineering. So that's how I got there. So it was just kind of like you said, an opportunity was brought to me and I didn't know enough to say yes or no. And I said, sure. I didn't know otherwise. Went to school there and where the school was located in Milwaukee at the time, Rockwell Automation had an office right across the street from the school. Oh wow, okay. And they were recruiting at a career fair. And as you were saying, you're nearing towards your senior year and you're like, yes, employment sounds lovely. Yeah. I would like a full time job. I would like a place to live, right, and eat. And they offered me a job in their customer service technical support department. And again, I said yes. I have customer service background. I worked at our local retail store. I've worked at a gas station. Right? I've worked in their registrar's office. I can talk to people. And at the time, it was with the motor control center division. And we were technical support. So everything from warranty questions to They looking for replacement parts, they want to do modifications, so a lot of reverse engineering. And that's how I got in the industry, all by chance, and I've been here since. So I've had a chances to be in tech support. I've had chances to be in product management, so responsible for profit and loss. on a product. I've had a chance to travel the world for this, for these jobs. And I started to work my way more into a sales and marketing role. Yeah. Like, oh, you're technical and you like to talk. And

Nikki: 5:42

you can talk to people.

Sarah: 5:43

And make eye contact. Yeah. You should come here. But I love helping people. I love teaching people, right? I love being that translator. Engineers get very excited about the details and you'll see the look on some customers faces going, I think I understand, but I'm not sure. Yeah. Help me translate. Okay, so in customer speak, this is what this means to you. And in engineer speak, here's why they care in being that bridge. And now that's how I'm in marketing, as you are also are familiar with marketing, you have a lot of creative resources. Right? Those that create the videos, or that create the graphics, or that create the beautiful marketing words you see on a webpage. But how do you take what the engineers give you and then translate it that they can make it creative and execute it? So I love being in this helping role, right? This bridge between engineering and marketing right now. But how do we help our customers? I don't think people understand the power of marketing. When you go buy a new product, whether it be a laptop, a phone, or a home, we're just talking about, you know, ventures into real estate, where do you go to find information on homes to buy?

Nikki: 6:54

I, I actually, when I spoke with Sean Tierney on his show a while ago, he made a really interesting analogy that I hadn't thought of before when we were talking about quote beam and, and distributors. And he said, well, it makes me think, and I don't remember whether it was, he said his wife or somebody he knows is in the real estate industry, but can you imagine a world without the MLS, the multiple listing service where like you, maybe you, what if every agent only had their own listings? How would you find a home that actually fits you if you're only getting pushed what this one agent has to offer? And you don't have visibility into what else is available on the market at all. That's kind of how I feel like some of our industry is still operating. Yes. And it's a separate discussion from this, but yeah, it, it, it is, it is kind of crazy, right? And I think we have spent all these years in this industry thinking about how to make machines work. Yes. And we don't think as much about how the people

Sarah: 7:50

work. No, not how the people work. Yeah. Yeah. And to your point, you look at OEMs, I mean, what they accomplish with their machines. Right. The ability to make the machines do everything from food processing to first and secondary packaging. It's incredible. Yeah. And then you have your operators and users who are doing the recipe management, whether they're making everything from milk to cheese or otherwise, it's incredible. But at the end of the day. Everybody likes to be informed. And where do we go? Websites, right? You go to Google. You might go to YouTube. Some use LinkedIn. Some still want a magazine subscription. Well, how do we take everything we do The crazy inventions we have and put it on the web where they can find it, compare it, research it, and understand it because nobody wants to walk into a sales meeting not feeling like they have something to add, contribute, or know. It gets to be almost scary if you walk in cold. Mm hmm. So then how can I take, you know, IE plans a great example, like you said, I'm sure for QuoteBeam. How do you take everything your software and solution can do? And put it like in one picture and three bullet points. We're still

Nikki: 9:03

struggling.

Sarah: 9:05

Everybody is. And then there's that challenge. Well, I don't want to not have everything on the web because we're so amazing. Yeah. But yet, I only have three to eight seconds to grab someone's attention to get them to want to talk. And at the end of the day, no matter what we make, we're still humans. We still want info. We now want more video, less reading, right? It's all quick hit. I want to know just enough that I can then make the determination if I want to spend more time researching, or not, next one. So it's incredible, and I don't think we ever look at marketing as the tool it could be. Yeah, no, that's true. You're more like, ah, I really need to focus on my machine. Yeah, but if no one knows about it, how awesome is it? Right? So that's why I love now being in this role. I still get to be somewhat technical, right? Somewhat creative. Still get to play in Excel, right? We got all our checklists. Excel will never die. Never die, right? We still have our checklists, we have our events coming up, like as you said. But I love this industry because every day it's something new. There's a new way that a machine is going to make. Or package something, right? There's now new ways on how craft brewing, microbrews, now have an ability to do more broad distribution than before. Like, it's incredible for small batches, regional, and then you just look at, like, Where we're going for space. It's just, I love this industry because every day there's something new and different out there to learn about. But at the end of the day, there is some sort of motor control. There's always an on off. Yep. Always. Okay, so how can I help you make that on off enclosure control panel as efficient as you can so that you can focus your time on making whatever else awesome you're doing. So that's where I really just love still being in this industry. It's very exciting for me. Real estate confuses me, but that's another topic,

Nikki: 11:03

right? Yeah, it was exciting to me for a while when I needed, I had the opportunity to go learn something completely new. And at first you're like, huh, I know a bit about this. I'm really smart and then when you learn more you realize how much you don't know and then you go Oh, wait, there's a whole deep dive like world of nuance here that I didn't know existed exactly And I think that's probably how the average person feels about machinery. I'm like robots make things, right?

Sarah: 11:32

Things we're trying to make sometimes

Nikki: 11:34

sometimes there's no robots involved, but I think for them, you know, they don't They're not in this industry. They consume what the industry makes. Yes. And it's almost easier to not really know or care how it's made than to I mean, once you come down this rabbit hole...

Sarah: 11:48

It's intense.

Nikki: 11:50

You're either, like, just consumed by it and interested, or, or maybe it's like, I don't really care at all. My husband always reminds me, he's like "babe, just remember most people don't care about this stuff at all". So, I've thankfully found friends outside of my home that I can talk about it all day long. Hey, Automation Ladies and friends. Thank you for making this possible for me to talk about outside, nobody in my friends or family wants to hear about it, so. 

Sarah: 12:14

I know. Yeah, no, that, that I can understand, yeah. No, I'm with you on that one. But that's where, like I said, perfect lead in. We were, we were trying to prep for, for this short recording. Automation Fair by Rockwell Automation will be November 6th through the 9th. And ePLAN and Rittal, we will be there. Booth 1500, that's our shout out. But I love going to those shows, and you've been to several shows, is that you get to see the latest innovations. Yeah. Right? And I really enjoy Rockwell Automation's tagline this year, Discover What's Possible. Because as you said, just walking that show floor, what are the latest controls? I mean, you can get so detailed. Yeah, right down to the product level, what is going to make this machine happen? And then into software solutions, right? And there's so many exhibitors that are going to be there, but I love walking around and they're bringing more machines to the show this year, which I think is exciting to see in real life a machine and how it all comes together from that detailed product to the software. What it looks like but yeah, that's where, like you said, we can all get together and talk and be like, have you seen this really cool thing? I can't believe it. 

Nikki: 13:28

I know for me anyway, I was in the industry at the sales engineer level in the plant for a long time. And so I got a lot of hands on experience constantly setting up test stuff on the line, helping troubleshoot what was on the line, whatever. And then I ended up in a software role. And all digital, right? Yes, all. Which is great, and you're like, oh man, I don't have to commute anymore, I get to whatever, and then after a while you get antsy, and you're like, wait, I need to see something move, I need to see something come together and be made. And it took me some time, but I had, I went, completely not a very good reason, but I convinced my manager at one point that I should go to Pack Expo because there might be leads there for me.

Sarah: I love Pack Expo. It's my favorite show.

Nikki: And I was like, I'm literally only going to hear pneumatics, like, psh, psh, psh. All day long. All day long. But it is so, and I, I honestly, after COVID, and I know, you know, the show stopped for a while, and we all had to figure out how the heck do we do this digitally, and now that we're back into in person events they seem to be bigger than ever, I think, because people craved that in person connection. Agreed. The other thing is, they craved, you know, with engineers especially, sometimes nothing beats holding the product, pushing the button, testing how strong is that connection, you know. 

Sarah: 14:41

Yeah, that terminal block, is it really gonna hold it when I pull on that wire. No, a hundred, a hundred percent. And that's where it's at. I love Peck Expo. It's my favorite show. It'll be in Chicago for 2024. It's, it's incredible. But I love that because like you said, you can go and touch and see and then talk to a human. Yeah. Because by that point in time, if you're coming to an event, you want to talk to people, right? You are looking for answers or you're curious or you're trying to find out more. So I agree to that. And then we just had meetings earlier today. When you go to a live event. Then what is your digital experience after the event? Right, we gotta send you the warm thank you for attending email. Mm hmm. And then how long do we wait to go just checking on you, how's it going, email? And then, you know, what's that experience to let you know we appreciate you seeing us at the show. We do want to follow up with you in a timely manner without bombarding you with all the spam emails. It is so easy to want to do.

Nikki: 15:37

Yeah. And I think that's one of the problems is like you go to the show and you may be hit up 10, 20, 30 booths. And all of them are gonna be like, Oh, can I scan your badge? And of course, yes. Like, I was here. It was a marketing lead. You did something right. I came to your booth. Cause I get the metric. 

Sarah: 15:51

Yay! We got a badge scan. 

Nikki: 15:55

But then, out of those 30, I probably don't have an immediate need to talk to all of them right away. But they all bombard me with the emails the same time after the show and then I'm now in their email, you know, drip campaign. And my email is already overloaded with all the distributor newsletters I get, the manufacturer newsletters I get.

Sarah: 16:13

It's so much.

Nikki: 16:14

And it's so much and it's like, well, I do want to hear from these people. Just not all the time and not all at the same time. Yeah. So it's, it's a, you know, it's a tough balance because... You don't want to, you know, communicate too little so that people forget you.

Sarah: Correct.

Nikki: You don't want to overdo it so that you piss them off.

Sarah: Unsubscribe.

Nikki: Right. But how do we actually, you know, get from that kind of spray on both sides, right? Like just, I'm just going to put it out to everyone. And that's, you know, something that I don't know how to solve exactly. But here's my thought, and I'm going to ask you, sort of live I guess, to give me some feedback on this. I was thinking for a show next year that we've been invited to where we could have a booth. I would like to invite some of my partners to support us with this booth. And then I was thinking, what's the best way to collect leads for these partners if they want to? And if somebody comes to us and wants to talk, I'm also like, I'm a really good... Or whatever. I don't know. I'm talking about myself. In my opinion, I'm a pretty good sales engineer. Like I also like communicating these concepts. I really like understanding people's problems and then how that translates to solutions and bridging that gap. So I was like, if I have any partners that have a presence at the booth, I already understand what they do. I wouldn't be partnered with them otherwise. Maybe I can, you know, intelligently speak a little bit about their product. And if somebody wants to follow up, right. Pass that lead over or whatever. But how do you pass that lead to where it doesn't get lost in the shuffle and they just get added to another, you know, big drip campaign. And my thought was because I can do this on a smaller scale because I'm small, right? I'm gonna have I'm gonna record a video with the prospect and just say

Sarah: I think that's fantastic.

Nikki: Who do you want to hear from and about what? And in about what time frame? Like, do you want somebody to call you next week because you have an application? Or do you just want to be signed up for the newsletter for future reference because you're interested in the product, but you don't have an application? Right? And then there's probably some sort of AI, or maybe I'll just listen to these and, you know, write out an email for each one and send the recording. But just get that context. Sometimes, you know, you just have to ask.

Sarah: 18:15

And that's beautiful. And that's some of the meetings we're internally having, is what is that follow up action, just as you were saying. Where's that nice happy marketing? Thank you email. And then where do you have the account managers that you said your sales engineers? Yeah, I'm making that contact but knowing what they want me to follow up on is so important because and it's not a cold call It's not a spam email. It's you spoke to so and so at the booth you showed interest I would like to show you the answers you're looking for. Do these date and times work? Now you're making progress on a meeting. So I think that's a beautiful idea of capturing what they're looking for. Because then we can give them that info. That not, here's my entire pamphlet. Yeah. It's awesome. Oh, here's page four is what you're looking for. I can be very detailed and I think that's great. And now with the file sharing tools, we have videos, it's perfect. And our sales team needs that context, right? They're screaming for it. So I think that's a great idea because we're trying to balance out. Like you said, I don't want to put you in a campaign for you to opt out of. I just really want to get you the info you need so we can make the decision together. Are we able to work together, or I can let you go on your way. Exactly. Or get you to the resources you need to get to the next step. 

Nikki: 19:32

You know, in our industry, and I mean sure many others, but there's also this divide between sales and marketing. Marketing has a certain set of metrics. Yeah. And then sales has their own metrics. And they don't always line up in the same outcome. And so particularly for marketing, you're oftentimes graded on the number of leads you get in. Every day. Top of funnel, you know, something like that. But then you send that marketing lead to a salesperson, and then the salesperson has to follow up on something and if it was just somebody that like downloaded an ebook and they really don't want to hear from the salesperson, salesperson's not happy, prospect isn't happy. Exactly. Marketing isn't really accomplishing what they want. Not even a little. So I think that we can all agree that context is key. Because we are here to solve problems, not just throw marketing messages at people. Or

Sarah: 20:19

money in a beautiful booth, right? Right. No, and yeah, that's part of our challenges. Like I said, I think with any company, marketing and... Yeah. Because I, and I, like you said, like you have been in a sales role and now a marketing role. You want good leads coming in, but it helps everybody, not just us on a sales perspective, but the prospect's whole customer experience. Yep. Right? Yeah. And, and I, I am in total agreement with that, but I know I think we're getting short on time here. So literally,

Nikki: 20:50

we will literally be locked out of the building if we don't wrap this up in the next five minutes. So, I think. Thank you, Sarah. We are good. So you said booth number 1500. 1500. I mean, that's a nice, even

Sarah: 21:01

number. And we're right by the entrance. You walk in, turn right. We're right there. Booth 1500, but thank you so much for having me on all the automation ladies that couldn't be here in person. But thank you, Nikki, I said and, and team for having me, but yeah, I'm looking forward to meeting with Automation Fair and maybe we'll have another podcast coming up as we really dig into marketing and sales. Yeah.

Nikki: 21:21

And then we have an outstanding invite to Anya. To come on the show to tell her story. She did a couple of panels with us, and we loved that, but I know she's very busy. And then we probably will do something fun together at Automation Fair, because why not? I know on a previous show we've said we were not going to be there but Rockwell kindly invited us, and so we are coming! And Yeah, we have a live show. You'll be hearing this on Thursday of tomorrow. Actually, this is an interesting if you're listening to this, we have actually a live demo of a software called MarketMate AI. So Sarah, if you can attend, I need to make sure to send you an invite. Our friends that are in marketing this would be relevant to you guys. But we're going to do that live on LinkedIn today, this afternoon, if you're listening now. If it's already passed, it will be replayable both on our website and on LinkedIn. And so with that, I also just want to note, ePlan is a sponsor of Automation Ladies. Yes, we are. Thank you so much. But this particular thing is not part of our sponsorship agreement whatsoever. I really just wanted to talk to Sarah. Thank you very much for having me. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks guys. Have a great day and hope to see some of you in person at Automation Fair. Bye. Thank you. Bye.